DVGW-512 – Urban Legend?
February 11, 2010
14 Comments
More and more people are wondering if it really exists? DVGW-512 is allegedly the standard for testing salt-free water treatment systems. In fact, one company (WATTS) is claiming (in a convoluted, round-about way) that their product is approved by DVGW-512. Check out this LINK if you want proof. While they don't actually "LIE" they lead you to believe that their product is 99.6% effective (as stated in the test). There are a couple of issues here, not the least of which is that the testing was done on the ORIGINAL MEDIA, but they are no longer producing the original media (from nextScaleStop). They claim it is better. I remain unconvinced. In fact, we have had more failures of their new media than their older media (and we had plenty of failures of that media as well). Let's not beat around the bush, the media in Watts One Flow is nextScaleStop media - they are one and the same! Pelican™* used the DVGW-512 standard in their website, but it turns out it was "Third Party-Tested." What does that mean? It could mean that they gave someone some money to test it and they said it was great. But what do you expect from a company who says that their system delivers "naturally softened water," which is totally false! Naturally softened water? Where did they get that? Look it up! According to one of the leading water experts in the country:
Naturally soft water supplies have a paucity of any dissolved minerals, or an absence of total dissolved solids (TDS), an excess of carbon dioxide over alkalinity, and generally, a low pH.Does Pelican™ do that? Hardly! When they start with something that is not true, how much can you believe? However, I digress. Here's the deal: I think the population can be divided into three thirds:
- People who won't believe anything. You could tell them that the sun will rise tomorrow and they would doubt you;
- People who will believe everything. I can tell them I am Elvis and they will believe it (this is the "lunatic fringe."); and
- People who are "open" or receptive to new and better things, if they work.
14 Comments
Do you still stand behind the Green Wave line of scale control devices? I am an environmental chemist with >40 years of experience, primarily in solid waste. I do, however, have some experience in water, primarily wastewater. We live in an area that has significant scale. Water softening is not an option – the rivers that I fish are severely depleted by urban withdrawals; the fish are already highly stressed, and adding sodium to the streams will stress them further. Because of all or the foregoing, I am looking for something that will reduce scale buildup without adding ‘softening’ cations.
Dick, Sorry for the late response, but I have been gone for a few days. The Green Wave is the product of years of testing and is also evolving. The biggest thing is that it does what we say. It doesn’t soften water or make “naturally soft water” like some companies claim. It doesn’t make soap lather better or make clothes whiter and brighter as others snake-oil salespeople claim. Those are out-and-out lies which are totally false! The Green Wave can do an excellent job of preventing scale when applied properly. One thing to think about however (and other companies LIE about this): With a salt-based water softener, you use about 50% leass soap, chemicals, detergents and other products. What effect does that have on the environmnet? I don’t have the answer, but it is something to ponder.
Mark, You indicated that the Green Wave can do an excellent job of preventing scale when applied properly. Can you explain what do you mean by applied properly and how would we know it is applied properly? Thanks, Wayne The Water Doctor Replied: “Properly applied” means that it is on water that does not have iron, sulfur or manganese and that the consumer understands what it will or won’t do.
The Water Doctor Replied: “Properly applied” means that it is on water that does not have iron, sulfur or manganese and that the consumer understands what it will or won’t do.
[…] Well, the fact that we (US Water) sell the GreenWave and not Pelican should say enough about it. I also believe that DVGW-512 is of no value. The Pelican system is “Third Party-Tested.” What does that mean? It could mean that they gave someone some money to test it and they said it was great. As it stands right now, there is no Certification, Testing or Validation of Salt-less or Salt-free water conditioning systems by any credible testing facility. The DVGW-512 standard is dubious, at best. (See previous post) […]
I have a question: what do you know about Puronics ( specifically the "new " Clarius no salt/potassium) system? What do you know about the compnay in general? Saw an ad and am wondering about company claims about salt free, environmentally friendly system?!?!
Mark, We are about ready to do a copper repipe and would like to add a soft water system at the same time. We have been getting conflicting statements about whether we go with a salt or salt-free system. We live in Southern Cal. (if, by chance that should make a difference.) What do you know specifically about Pure Water Technologies?
John Cape wrote: Mark, We are about ready to do a copper repipe and would like to add a soft water system at the same time. We have been getting conflicting statements about whether we go with a salt or salt-free system. We live in Southern Cal. (if, by chance that should make a difference.) What do you know specifically about Pure Water Technologies? The Water Doctor Replied: Sorry for the delay – I have taken some time off. Pure Water Technologies looks like a good company, however I really know nothing about them. Their product uses nextScaleStop, which in my opinion is not as good as our current MEP Media. We used to use nextScaleStop, which less than steller results.
I have a similar question as SueR. How does the GreenWave compare to the Puronics Clarius system?
Warren, Insofar as I can tell, the Puronics Clarius is a back-washing carbon filter with some silver-impregnated carbon inside (which is a registered EPA pesticide). From what I gather it does nothing for scale – just removes chemicals and chlorine and (I’m guessing) is pretty pricey. The Green Wave does that AND prevents scale. Big Difference!
Hi, first of all I love your comments! It’s nice to have some humour interjected into what could otherwise be very dry material. I have a question about your comment: " I believe that Filtersorb and nextScaleStop are now nearly identical in performance. Ask Watts. They use both Next and Filtersorb. I will be the first to say that I believe they are equal in performance." My question is this. I have gathered from your other remarks that you aren’t 100% behind ScaleStop (ScaleNet). I see from GreenWave literature that it is NAC. So, is GreenWave media actually Filtersorb? Filtersorb claims that their media is NOT the same as ScaleStop at all and that the beads are coated with two layers of ceramic to help prevent swelling. Is it the swelling that caused TAC to perform so poorly as you indicated in other posts? I am confused. What is actually inside GreenWave and who manufactures it? thanks Janice
Janice, A blog is an evolving body of work. This was published in 2010 and is not updated to remain true to the evolution of things. At that time, we were just switching to ScaleNet. Subsequent to that we now use Filtersorb SP3 with NAC Technology which I believe mirrors TAC. The Green Wave is made by us and the media is the newest release of Filtersorb SP3. We have not had the swelling we experienced with the TAC, and in fact have had very little difficulty with it. It has performed as advertised. We are not committed to NAC or TAC, and maybe TAC works better now – we are committed to giving our customers the best water quality possible and we now believe that is with the Filtersorb SP3, although we are always testing other products. If they work, we will sell them. I hope this clears things up.
What are you selling now, NAC or TAC? What is NAC? I’ve never heard of it. Thanks in advance for your reply.
We are now selling NAC, and I believe that most other salt-free systems also now use NAC, although some call it TAC. I believe that they work the same and essentially have the same properties. We simply have used NAC longer than we used TAC and with better results. The NAC Technology is made my Watch Water in Germany. You can read about it here: https://www.watchwater.com/filtersorb-sp3.html