Confused About Salt-Free Water Conditioners?

Confused About Salt-Free Water Conditioners?

Mark,

I’ve read a couple of your posts and it seems to me there are a lot of people out there that are looking for salt-free water softener/conditioner.  I’ve looked at Easy Water and had a response from a representative.  I feel that Easy Water doesn’t work as it is more or less a gimmick.  On the other hand, Pelican™* NaturSoft (was looking at combo series) seems plausible but according to what you’ve mentioned in your posts it doesn’t do what the web site stated.  The representative I spoke with indicated that the hardness number will not change after the system is installed (which would be a fact) and the minerals would still be present but crystallized so I don’t get the hard water side effects.  Does that mean I’d use less soap, etc?  And how long would the minerals remain crystallized?  Also, the web site indicated that the build up (scale) in the copper pipes will eventually be removed after the system is installed and apparently with water softener the existing scale doesn’t go away and it simply slows down the scale build-up.

Granted, it’s very difficult decision to make and I certainly don’t want to make an expensive mistake.  A family friend has water softener for years and she mentioned she has Kinetico.  It doesn’t require electricity and, apparently, it is replenished with salt once a year.  I know Kinetico makes quality systems however I heard they are very expensive, perhaps overpriced.  I’m not entirely sold on the idea of the soapy feeling.  I’m guessing I need some more answers before I make a decision.  I know I do have hard water and I don’t recall the numbers when I had a local company come by to test the water and tried to sell me water softener.  When I told the salesman that I will think about it and almost on a daily basis I get a call from him asking whether I have made a decision.  He was pretty pushy and I decided to put it off (been a year now) and I know I need a system to treat hard water and prolong appliances that are only a few years old as well as filtered water at every tap.  Not to mention, easier to clean in the bathrooms especially the shower stalls.

Thanks for your time.

Ethan

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The Water Doctor replied:

Ethan,

I have been getting this question quite a lot, and so I have decided to re-visit this issue in this blog.   The two companies you mentioned (Easy Water and Pelican™) are the two main companies that we get questions about, although there are a multitude of other companies selling similar products.  First of all, I think that it needs to be established that the two companies you mentioned are what I call “One-Trick-Ponies”  and I don’t necessarily mean that as a bad thing, I just mean that they basically sell ONE PRODUCT – Salt-Free Water Treatment Systems.  Oh, they may say that they have a few other products, but they essentially have one product which they “push.”  That is the biggest difference between US Water and these companies – we have the largest selection of water treatment products on the planet BECAUSE THERE IS NO ONE TECHNOLOGY WHICH SOLVES EVERY WATER PROBLEM.

Many people say that the Easy Water system, and systems like them do not work.  That is not my position – I think there is some validity to the technology, however it does not work like they insinuate, and now we have proof! First of all, the technology behind Easy Water is Electromagnetic or Radio Frequency (RF).  Electromagnetic Technology (ET) consists of a wire wrapped around the water pipe that transmits electronic frequencies (a magnetic field) and claims to precipitate hardness into aragonite crystal, forming a soft scale as opposed to calcite.  While the exact mechanism is not clear, it is theorized that dissolved oxygen, silica and the carbonate ion may play a role.1

The Pelican™ system uses a process which may be characterized as similar to Template Assisted Crystallization (TAC).  US Water has a product called the Green Wave which utilizes a process substantially the same as TAC, called MEP (Matrix Enabled Particulization) .  Pelican™ uses a similar method.  Filtersorb SP3 and nextScaleStop are also two similar methods or medias.  These methods employ a special surface-treated resin bead to act as a catalytic nucleation site for the conversion and growth of hardness crystals, which are subsequently released and remain in solution without forming scale.1

In a recent study, funded by the Water Research Foundation (which is still on-going and not yet complete), it was found that the TAC Technology reduced scale by 96.4 percent, while the electromagnetic technology only reduced sale by 41.7%.1 By my math, the electromagnetic technology was less than half as effective.  Do you want a product that reduces scale by 96% or 41%?  I think that’s an easy answer.  Force fields work in Star Trek, but maybe no so well in water treatment!

Assuming that Pelican™ has viable technology (and I am not saying that they do – just assuming so), I have problems with the way they market their products.  On the site where they have their products for sale, they say the following: “The Pelican™ NaturSoft Salt Free Water Softener is the most environmentally conscious hard water softening/conditioning system available.”  According to the Water Quality Association (WQA) “softened water”  “is water that contains less than one grain per gallon (gpg) of hardness ions.”  Therefore, any device that is effective in reducing the water hardness to less than one gpg is a softener. Conversely, and water treatment device that does not reduce the hardness of the water to less than 1 gpg cannot be called a softener and it dos not produce soft water.

Pelican™ says that they have “naturally softened water, without salt” and calls their product a water softener.  It may condition the water, but it absolutely doesn’t soften the water by causing it to contain less than 1 gpg hardness ions.  In fact, they go on to say:   “The Pelican™ Natursoft keeps the healthy minerals in the water so you can enjoy naturally softened water.” Naturally softened water contains no minerals and they say that they keep the minerals in the water, so the two statements are contradictory and misleading.  Pelican™ may be a water “conditioner” but to call it a water “softener” is extremely misleading to a consumer.  I have tested both Easy Water and Pelican™ and can find no basis for claims that you will use less soaps and detergents or that you will have whiter and brighter clothes.  I know that they have some glowing testimonials, but I wonder if some of the endorsements are by people who have seen these “little green men” as well.

Also, when looking at a Pelican™ NaturSoft Combo System, look at the size tanks.  On the carbon tank, they say that theirs is 11″ x 57.5″ for the 15 GPM Model.  A tank that size holds 1.5 cu/ft of carbon.  Each cubic foot of carbon will successfully treat up to 5 GPM.  Oh, you can get more water than that through it, but it won’t be properly de-chlorinated.   They don’t have any specifications on their pre-filter but it looks to be a 4.5″ x 10″ while the Green Wave has a 4.5″ x 20″  – Twice the Size!

Let’s compare the Pelican™ Combo with the US Water Green Wave Plus:

Pelican™ Green Wave
Model PSE-2000 GWP-1500
Maximum Flow Rate 15 GPM 15 GPM
Pre-Filter Size 4.5” x 10” 4.5” x 20”
Pre-Filter Type String Pleated
Carbon Tank 10” x 54” 13” x 65”
Amount of Carbon 1.5 cu/ft 3.0 cu/ft
Scale Tank 10” x 54” 10” x 54”
Cost $2,349 $2,295

You can’t expect to properly de-chlorinate and treat 15 GPM with 1.5 cu/ft of carbon. PERIOD!  The Green Wave Plus has a prefilter TWICE THE SIZE, an upflow carbon filter TWICE THE SIZE and costs less.  What do you think makes the most sense?  You can’t cheat “contact time” in carbon filtration.  You have to have a properly size tank and the right quantity of carbon.  If not, the water will be wet, but it won’t be properly filtered and some contaminants will pass through.

Insofar as soft water verses conditioned water, here’s a chart as to what each product will do:

 

 

 

 

 

So, you have a choice:  You can eliminate scale with the proper type of salt-free water conditioner or with a salt-based water softener.  Some salt-free conditioners as well as some salt-based water softeners will also remove chorine and chemicals, but if you want to use up to 50% or 60% less soaps, cleansers, shampoos, detergents and things like that, your only choice is a salt-based water softener.  It simply isn’t happening with a salt-free system, no matter what the people who have seen the little green men say (I call them the “lunatic fringe”).

Some people say “I want to be green and don’t want to put salt back into the environment.”   That’s a noble thought, and it’s not the salt that’s the problem, it’s the chloride, but let me ask another question:   If you are “green” and don’t use salt when you have hard water, you will end up using 50% more soaps, detergents, chemicals and water conditioning chemical compounds and THOSE ARE DISCHARGED BACK INTO THE ENVIRONMENT – Which is worse?  Think about it.

Maybe now you will understand why we sell a full line of water treatment products, including salt-free water conditioners, as well as salt-based water softeners.  We aren’t “one-trick-pony” and we tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

1. Michaud, Chubb, Softening Alternatives, Water Conditioning & Purification Journal, January 2011.

* – Pelican™ is a registered trademark of Pelican Water Technologies. US Water Systems has no affiliation with the company.

46 Responses to “Confused About Salt-Free Water Conditioners?”

  1. Irmi Swan says:

    I’m not a plumber or did any big research, just a consumer that purchased an Easy Water over 2 years ago after our very old water softener started leaking, thinking the saltless feature was more environmentally responsible, cheaper to operate, and healthier than drinking salt water. Even though our plumber did an annual flush, our pipes kept getting so built up with scale that the flow rate of our tankless water heater was so low, the heater often wouldn’t kick on when taking a shower, unless we would turn on the water at the sink at the same time. We just now purchased a traditional water softener, and the difference is amazing. Hot showers again, with actual water pressure, no calcium deposits on the faucets, I can comb my hair easier. We definitely wasted our money with Easy Water.

  2. Jenny W. says:

    How about reverse osmosis systems? don’t them remove calcium and magnesium as well as using no sodium salts? do understand that you will need electricity to run them. your comments on RO will be much appreciated.

  3. mark says:

    Jenny,

    Yes, properly applied, a reverse osmosis system removes the calcium and magnesium. To do it for a whole house, you would need a booster pump and may have to have some pre-treatment to prevent the calcium and magnesium from scaling the RO membrane.

  4. JARAN says:

    I HAVE BEEN SEARCHING FOR THE BEST DEAL ON WATER SOFTENERS TO HELP PROLONG THE LIFE OF MY APPLIANCES. I AM ALSO CONCERNED ABOUT THE DRINKING WATER AS MY HOUSE IS OLDER AND NOT PLUMBED FOR A SOFTENER IT WILL HAVE TO BE A COMPROMISE PREFERABLY SALT FREE. I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SAY I AM VERY DISCOURAGED HOW PELICAN HAS SENT OUT THERE SPY’S TO EVERY BLOG SITE OR WEB POST TO TALK SMACK ABOUT EVERY OTHER BRAND. I’M TO THE POINT WHERE I AM JUST GOING TO GIVE UP BECAUSE YOU ARE ALL SO CUT THROAT I DONT KNOW WHAT TO BELIEVE OR WHO TO TRUST NOW NO ONE WILL GET MY MONEY. HOPE YOU SELFISH PRICKS ARE HAPPY

  5. mark says:

    Jaran,

    It’s certainly a free country and you can believe whatever you want, but how are we cut-throat and selfish? We just tell the truth. We sell more salt water softeners than salt-free because of that.

    They don’t soften water and we don’t infiltrate other websites’ or blogs. We go to great lengths to tell you exactly what a salt-free system will and won’t do. Other companies only tell you want it will do and they stretch the truth by a long distance.

    I can’t change your mind. Only you can do that, but what you say flies in the face of the facts.

  6. larry burden says:

    what is the best salt system on the market today for the money for a 3 bedroom housr?

  7. Lee says:

    What about a well with iron. Right now we use Resup to remove the iron. Is there anything better that we could use instead? Maybe something friendlier to use. Do you know if those chemicals get through the resin and into our drinking water and bathing water? I sometimes get a rash on my skin and I notice when I stopped using resup for a week it started clearing up. Wasn’t sure if that was just from the softening of the water or the chemical was getting through. Thanks.

  8. Jack says:

    Hi Mark… thanks for taking the time to answer our questions… I was looking into a tac system but I have been turned off because apparently it does not remove the minerals that cause hard water… but it is safe to drink salt softened water… I hear some people saying soft water has very little salt in it so it should be safe… my other question is if you think a system setup with a salt water softener followed by a whole house filter with work… I’m thinking that I get softened water with the added protection of ultrafiltration… soft showers and clean drinking water… Thanks again.

  9. Jack says:

    Sorry… meant to say “is it safe to drink salt softened water?”

  10. mark says:

    Lee,

    The latest this is chemical-free iron removal system ahead of the water softener. The softener doesn’t use nearly as much salt and doesn’t have to work as hard, plus the life is extended … and there are no chemicals to leach into the water.

    Here’s the infusion Chemical –Free System:

    http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/products/infusion-Chemical%252dFree-Iron%2C-Sulfur-%26-Manganese-Eradication-System.html

  11. mark says:

    Jack,

    A lot depends upon what is in your water. The amount of sodium added in most cases is small, but if your water is extremely hard, it could be higher. A good water analysis is paramount. I recommend this one:

    http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/products/Clean-Water-Test-%252d-BEST-VALUE!.html

    Another issue is taste. Frankly, I don’t like soft water and ultrafiltration won’t do much for that. Reverse osmosis is the only practical way to remove the sodium.

    Depending upon your budget, you may want to consider whole house reverse osmosis. This involves a commercial reverse osmosis system which doesn’t waste nearly as much water. In fact, in many instances and with proper pre-treatment, we can recover 75% of the water.

    Get that water test done first and then we can tell you how to proceed.

    Let me know if you have more questions or need further information. We look forward to working with you.

    Remember, we are here 7 days a week from 8 AM until 11 PM for technical support and we will beat any price on a comparable system.

    Regards,

  12. mark says:

    Jack,

    A lot depends upon what is in your water. The amount of sodium added in most cases is small, but if your water is extremely hard, it could be higher. A good water analysis is paramount. I recommend this one:

    http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/products/Clean-Water-Test-%252d-BEST-VALUE!.html

    Another issue is taste. Frankly, I don’t like soft water and ultrafiltration won’t do much for that. Reverse osmosis is the only practical way to remove the sodium.

    Depending upon your budget, you may want to consider whole house reverse osmosis. This involves a commercial reverse osmosis system which doesn’t waste nearly as much water. In fact, in many instances and with proper pre-treatment, we can recover 75% of the water.

    Get that water test done first and then we can tell you how to proceed.

  13. nancy konechne says:

    we need a water softener and looking at saltless. One reason is that we can’t carry the bags of salt downstairs. But want one that leaves dishes in DW clean & water soft.

    what do you recommend?

    nancy

  14. mark says:

    NANCY,

    You should check out these:

    http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/categories/Salt-Free-Water-Conditioners/

    If you need help in deciding which one is right for you, please give us a call at 800-608-USWA.

  15. Bonnie says:

    We have a 3 member household in 1450 s. feet all women who likes to feel soft. What is ypour reccomendation for capacity and cost?

  16. Rick says:

    Mark-

    I have been looking at EasyWater for 2 years; never purchased because I could never find any empirical data showing it works. Yours is the only other salt-free conditioner I have come across.

    Here’s my story:
    I live in the Northeast and have beautiful spring-fed well water. It is hard and it builds up scale in my copper pipes and faucets. All pipes, fixtures and appliances were new 13 years ago and run fine except for scale in pipes, faucets and showerheads. I want to get rid of the scale but do not want to change a thing about the taste or feel of my water. I do not need to use extra soaps or detergents. Our dishes are spotless. (My wife says the white clothes could come out whiter)

    I have a whole house filter for sediment only and another filter in the refrigerator. All waste discharges to my undergound cesspools.

    So, what is my best option for a salt-free water conditioner to add to my current system that will prevent new scale, remove existing scale and leave everything else the same?

  17. Janet says:

    I am looking for a water conditioner that will keep hard water scale off the shower walls and from clogging up the shower head as well as sink stoppers. I do not care about lots of suds and a silky feel to the water. My main concern is hard water deposits making everything difficult to clean. I also prefer not to use salt.
    We have 6 grains per gallon of hardness. Would the Green Wave work on this amount of hardness and if so which one would be the most appropriate for a 3 bathroom house?
    Any recommendations would be helpful.

  18. Karen says:

    Will the Pelican or the Green Wave make our hair and skin soft, as well as our laundry? We have 38 grains of harness here, where we’ve lived about a year. I noticed the shower only felt slippery some of the time. My hands and hair have become unbelievably dry. Also, our towels are very scratch. Is that from so much potassium salt in the water, or from the softener not working, and too much minerals in the water.Our softener is now on its last legs. I would like a salt-free system, so that I wouldn’t have to lug around 40 lb bags. But, with this much hardness, the system has to really work or we’ll end up having to replumb the house.

  19. mark says:

    Bonnie,

    I would recommend a 35,000 grain softener like one of these:

    http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/compare/3702/3434/587

  20. mark says:

    Rick,

    This is currently the best option:

    http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/products/Green-Wave-Cascade-Saltless-Water-Conditioner-with-Chlorine-Removal.html

    Salt free systems are not perfect and you won’t get the results you do with a salt-based softener. The Green Wave is currently the best available technology. If there is something better, we will sell it.

  21. mark says:

    Karen,

    In a word – NO! There are a lot of people who will tell you that, but is simply isn’t true.

    With water that hard, you will need a salt-based water softener or a whole-house reverse osmosis system.

    Call us if you have questions…

  22. Tim Fox says:

    i think the confusion is in the semantics. Water Doctor did clear up things quite a bit, but “naturally softened” water does not mean that it is free of minerals. That is softened water via salt or some similar application. Pelican’s use of the phrase “naturally softened” means that they don’t really take anything out of the water or use pellets to soften the water. Instead, their system makes the ions inert so that they cannot produce scale on your plumbing components.

    The simplest answer for whether to use a saltless system is this: If you like your water as it is, but do not want scale, get a saltless system. If you do not like your water as it is and want softer towels, more of slimy feel in the shower, etc. then get a traditional softener.

    I live in Minneapolis where we have less than 8 grains of hardness, very little chlorine, etc. but I completely ripped out all of my copper plumbing less than a year ago and replaced with PEX. Within one year, I had massive scale built up on some components on my radiant heat pump. I like my water, but I don’t want it ruining my components. So a saltless system will do exactly what I need – keep everything in the water, but keep the scale off the components. Hope that helps a little.

  23. Rose Lake says:

    I have a question about “spot-free dishes – NO.” If the TAC technology massively reduces calcium deposits (scale) on the inside of pipes and appliances, then why wouldn’t it do the same for dishes? When our softener starts to wear out, we don’t just get “spots” – which can be taken care of with products like Jet Dry, and special detergents. We get hard white deposits on silverware, glasses, and dishes which are *very* difficult to remove. Wouldn’t the TAC technology reduce *that* to a minimal level?

    If it does, I wouldn’t care about a few easily removable spots, or soap that doesn’t produce oceans of suds. Also, I *like* minerals in my water, and dislike soft water (so we drink bottled mineral water, which seems crazy when our water naturally has so much calcium and magnesium). But we didn’t leave the kitchen tap water unsoftened because, with 19 grains of hard water, the stainless steel sink accumulates scale way too easily.

    Also, with soft water, it takes five minutes to rinse a little soap off your hands, which never does feel like it’s actually gone, and just ends up on the towel I guess. But with water this hard we can choose between having the slimy feeling, or buying all brand new appliances once a year – so the slime wins every time.

  24. Mark Timmons says:

    Lots of questions. I’ll answer them individually:

    If the TAC technology massively reduces calcium deposits (scale) on the inside of pipes and appliances, then why wouldn’t it do the same for dishes? When our softener starts to wear out, we don’t just get “spots” – which can be taken care of with products like Jet Dry, and special detergents. We get hard white deposits on silverware, glasses, and dishes which are *very* difficult to remove. Wouldn’t the TAC technology reduce *that* to a minimal level?

    “Velocity” through the pipes prevents the buildup, but there is no velocity in the dishwasher. TAC or any salt-free method does not remove the hardness so it is still there on the dishes and when it dries there are spots. No reduction with TAC – end of story!

    If it does, I wouldn’t care about a few easily removable spots, or soap that doesn’t produce oceans of suds. Also, I *like* minerals in my water, and dislike soft water (so we drink bottled mineral water, which seems crazy when our water naturally has so much calcium and magnesium). But we didn’t leave the kitchen tap water unsoftened because, with 19 grains of hard water, the stainless steel sink accumulates scale way too easily.

    Drink what you like – Mineral water is fine!

    Also, with soft water, it takes five minutes to rinse a little soap off your hands, which never does feel like it’s actually gone, and just ends up on the towel I guess. But with water this hard we can choose between having the slimy feeling, or buying all brand new appliances once a year – so the slime wins every time.

    It does not take 5 minutes to rinse off the soap. You are just feeling you own skin oils and confusing it with soap. Here’s proof: Wash a hand in hard water with IVORY SOAP, rinse it and it won’t feel slick (you say slimy). Then lick it – you will taste the soap. Do the same with soft water. You will feel slick (you say slimy) but you won’t taste the soap. GUARANTEED!

    To top it off you save 50% on soaps because you don’t use as much.

    You say slimy – I say silky – it’s a matter of perspective.

  25. Jason says:

    I personally am very disappointed with Pelican. They have been very misleading and deceitful with me. I have a water hardness level of 26, a TDS level of 1000, and high iron and manganese, along with a chloride content of 400 and extremely high sodium. When it came time to sell me something, they were very helpful. After reviewing my water test, they recommended my setup. I bought and installed everything exactly the way they told me.

    I installed the following in order:

    5 micron sediment filter
    chlorine injector pump (@ 3 ppm) with 35 gallon storage tank
    Greensand iron/manganese remover
    carbon series filter tank
    NatureSoft salt free water softener

    The iron and manganese problem did go away. However, the hardness ans TDS are still a major problem. Our shower doors, fixtures, dishes and inside the dishwasher itself are covered in a white film….badly. After not even a month, the filter in our furnace humidifier was pretty much a solid block of salt. My coffee filters look like someone sprinkled kosher salt into them. The white calcium carbonate sediment in my beverage glass after the ice melts looks like someone shaved a pile of skin off the bottom of their calloused foot into my drink!

    I started calling within a few weeks of installation trying to get help. I used the Lemi-Shine rinse aid they sent me and it does nothing. Every time I called (within the 90 satisfaction guarantee), they told me, “Just give it time, it’s cleaning the scale out of your system.” All the piping supplying their equipment, I installed new at the same time. I have checked various places around the whole house and there is no scale. Now, I call just outside my 90 day guarantee and their story changes. They now tell me that nothing they have to offer can deal with my water conditions and that the only thing that will help me is either RO or distillation. They also tell me I probably shouldn’t be drinking the water. So when I told them to come get their equipment and refund my money, they told me it was too late because the 90 days had expired. I told them they knowingly sold me equipment that would not address my problem and they said, “No, we sold you the best that WE had to offer.” They claimed that I wasn’t specific enough in the results I was looking for to begin with. I’m sorry, but after spending $3,800 on your equipment, at the very least,I expect the results to be drinkable water.

    I did contact the lab that did the testing (Pelican sold me the test) and they told me that all of my issues were EPA secondary and unless I was on a no sodium diet, posed only asthetic issues, but are not detrimental to my health. And to be honest, the water tastes fine.

    Their website is misleading calling the NatureSoft a softener at all, and in the FAQ’s right after saying yes it’s a softener they answer the next question no, after installing the NatureSoft salt free softener, the hardness level in your water test will not be reduced. Not exact words, but you get the gist.

    Also, Pelican is Operated by Enviro Water Solutions, who incidentally has consructed a fake website. When I searched on Yahoo for sites reviewing water softeners, a link to http://www.watersoftenerscompared.com popped up. When I clicked on it, it took me to a site making the Pelican system look like the be all end all in water treatment systems compared to some others. This is a misleading tactic and if you ask me, Pelican is guilty of some serious false advertisement calling this system a softener.

    Lesson learned. I have been told that our water conditions are worst than most, and everyone up and down our street has similar problems, but they went different routes. I should have gone local from the get go but being new to the area, I didn’t know where to go. I figured everyone would just be looking for a sale. Well, BINGO! So was Pelican.

  26. Jason says:

    I forget to add that at the bottom of the water softeners compared website is a small link to a disclaimer saying that the site is run by Enviro Water Solutions.

  27. Navneet says:

    How do you compare to James Water Softeners? They are the only ones to hit the magic 17 GPM needed for a 2 bathroom home. 16.8 GPM is needed for such a home according to the water quality association of america.

  28. Mark Timmons says:

    1. I have never heard of James Water Softeners.
    2. They are not the only ones who hit 17 GPM – we have many softeners that flow over 17 GPM!
    3. Where does the Water Quality Association say you need 16.8 GPM for a two bedroom home?

  29. nadia says:

    Hi, really need help deciding what we need. We have a Pelican whole house filter but still deal with hard water. Our water smells at times and it’s ruining all our appliances and laundry soap stays on clothes very irritating. We are looking into a water softener but have no idea. I called the people at Safe way and still no reply back so that put a red flag up for me. Are salt water softeners going to do harm longterm? I’ve read salt less water softeners really don’t soften water at all so I’m very confused. Please help….

  30. Mark Timmons says:

    Nadia,

    Saltless water conditioners DO NOT soften the water, PERIOD! First of all, we need to know about your water so that we can fix it. I would advise you to give us a call. One of our Certified Water Specialists can put you on the right path. 800-608-8792 and no one is on commission.

  31. nadia says:

    Thank you for such a quick response really appreciate that!! I will be calling thanks again.:-)

  32. Joseph says:

    Can you tell me whether the saltless water conditioners are safe for tankless water heater? Especially since I have learned today the difference between a saltless and salt using water softener/conditioner.

    Thanks

  33. Mark Timmons says:

    They are indeed safe and we use them a lot. We just advise putting a hot water filter ahead of the heater:

    http://www.uswatersystems.com/water-filters/plastic-filter-housings/2-1-2-x-10-filter-housings/black-high-temperature-filter-housing.html

    With this cartridge:

    http://www.uswatersystems.com/harmsco-polyester-high-temperature-801-5-micron-2-75-x-9-75-cartridge-801-5-ht.html

    That keeps the solids from accumulating in the coils of the heater.

  34. Mike says:

    I already have a descaler that works very well at descaling, I need some kind of filter to filter the residue that appears as a milky cloud on everything like my sink, shower, and dishes. SO is there a filter I can use without using salt, or electricity?

  35. wendy says:

    I am in Montana, I have a well and hard water but my biggest problem is Iron content. I had it tested and was told it is very high. I have a RO system also. my water softener works well so my issue is hauling and filling it up with salt. I’m getting older and woould rather not deal with salt but if I can’t get something that will take care of the iron it wont do me any good. I have seen some that do say they can take care of the iron but I don’t know. I don’t mind harder water, i grew up with a well and the water tastes much better but i need to take care of the iron. can you help me?

  36. Ed says:

    It’s to bad there’s not a simple solution to the hard water problem. I have a deep well that has good smelling great tasting water. the only problem is the water has tons of minerals that causes the pluming to get a lot of white deposits on them. I would like find a reasonable priced water filter system that doesn’t use salt. WELCOME TO THE CROWD.

  37. Mark Timmons says:

    WE HAVE REASONABLY PRIICED SYSTEMS THAT CAN FIX YOUR WATER.

    GIVE US A CALL AT 800-608-8792.

  38. Mark Timmons says:

    Mike, I would have to know more about your water, but it sounds like you are talking about hardness, which can only be removed by a water softener or reverse osmosis system.

  39. Steve says:

    I have very hard water (around 15 gpg), but I also want the effects of a soft water system. Can I use a water conditioner for the calcium buidup and then a water softener for the water that comes in the house, in series with the water conditioner?

  40. Mark Timmons says:

    Steve,

    I guess I fail to see what the benefit would be. The water softener also removes the calcium. If you want a water softener, a conditioner is redundant!

  41. steve f says:

    Mark, I have read your post with interest and from what I have read I don’t think I want a salt less system(was going to buy a pelican model)to get rid buying salt and the furnace guy tells me that the salt conditioner’s are hard on the boilers) I have 12 grains of hardness, ph is 8.07 and the iron is .8 ml. Any suggestions would a great help. thank you steve

  42. Mark Timmons says:

    Steve,

    I hope the furnace guy isn’t your brother or something, because that is a totally false statement. In fact, it is reckless to say such a thing. Under no circumstances would you want a saltless system with a boiler, as I have seen them plug in a matter of days. Most boiler manufacturers DEMAND at least soft water, and high-pressure steam boilers require reverse osmosis water. Many commercial boilers use deakalizers as well. Cleaver Brooks. who is one of the oldest and most respected boiler manufacturers has an entire water treatment division with salt-based water softening at its core. http://www.cleaver-brooks.com/Products-and-Solutions/Water-Systems/Water-Treatment/Index.aspx

    You absolutely do want a water softener for a boiler, and with your small amount of iron, I would suggest this to prevent any hard water from entering your boiler system:

    http://www.uswatersystems.com/systems/water-softener-system/city-water-softeners/synergy-twin-alternating-metered-water-softener.html

    Now, one final word of advice: Even with softened water, the total dissolved solids will gradually concentrate in the boiler, so it is important that you “blow it down” periodically… like once every week or two. If you have further questions, please let me know.

  43. steve f says:

    thanks mark for the great info. is there another choice that takes less space as we don’t have a lot of room now w/ the old 1 tank and separate brine tank. I have been using the iron out salt with the current softener to help with the rust. we have a whole house filter (Omni u25) then it goes into the softener then furnace and into another house filter(taste GAC BB 10″ filter). would like to have an all in one system is that is possible. thanks again steve

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