I talk to many people each day, inside and outside the water industry, and the claims by many companies who are trying to sell salt-free, saltless or no-salt (call them what you will) are really confusing. Many are also not rooted in fact. I try to keep an open mind and I am receptive to new and improved technology, but it first has to pass the “smell” test. Devices that “cure” a plethora of water problems and “one size fits all” are dead give-aways to false claims. Let the buyer beware. Frankly, most do not do what they say. However, there is no reason to be confused. The German Technical and Scientific Association for Gas and Water (DVGW) has developed protocol for testing scale prevention properties of these types of devices. This testing protocol is called DVGW Standard W 512.
In order to be certified by this agency, a device must reach the threshold of being at least 80% efficient. There are several devices throughout the world which are certified as being at least 80% efficient, but to my knowledge, there is only one such device in the USA that achieves this level of efficiency, that being nextScaleStop manufactured by next Filtration Technologies, Inc. of Incline Village, Nevada and that is the salt free water conditioner US Water Systems handles, and it is sold under the brand name “Green Wave.”
Remember this: Only a salt-based water softener “softens” water. If you like the “slick” feeling of soft water, you won’t like salt-free systems . Systems that really work without salt, “condition” the water by preventing it from sticking to any surface and one more thing that I think should be done that no magnetic or electronic water conditioning device can do, is to remove or reduce the hazardous chemicals like chlorine, THM’s, PCB’s, pesticides, tastes and odors – while leaving the beneficial minerals. This would be the “greenest” system on the market!
I would not be comfortable selling a product that wasn’t nearly 100% efficient at reducing scale and had the certification to prove it! No electronic or electro-magnetic process does that, but there is a process called Template Assisted Crystallization that does.
This would be a good time to review some blogs and discussions about salt free-systems. Here are some links:
http://www.waternet.com/detail.asp?Parent_ID=137072#137072
http://www.waternet.com/detail.asp?Parent_ID=135334#135334
http://watertechonline.com/detail.asp?Parent_ID=137161#137161
PDF’s:
no-salt-soft-factfiction-or-fantasy
http://www.wefixbadwater.com/pdf/Scale%20Stop%20Science%20SF.pdf
To date, the only Salt-Free System in the USA that has passed the Stringent German Standard (DVGW-W512) is nextScaleStop media, used in Watts One-Flow and US WATER’s GreenWave systems.
Here’s a copy of their certification:
http://www.wefixbadwater.com/pdf/DVGW%20report.pdf
Q. Do salt-free water softeners really work? – David M., Greenville, Ohio
A. Well, I am going to have to assume that you are referring to electronic, magnetic or media devices that are purported to “condition” water. Notice, I did not say “soften” water. In my opinion, the only way you can “soften” water is by removing a “hard mineral” (calcium, magnesium) and replacing it with a “soft mineral” (sodium, potassium). Conditioning can be accomplished in a number of ways:
- Filtration – by removing sediment, silt and other contaminants the water is boing “conditioned.”
- Carbon Filtration – by passing the water through a media containing carbon to remove chemicals and chlorine.
- Seed Crystalization – by using either electrical current, magnetic or media crystalization to form “seed crystals.”
- Oxidation – by using chlorine, potassium permanagante, hrdrogen peroxide, ozone or oxygen to oxidize contaminants in the water.
Filtration, carbon filtration and oxidation are well-established methods of conditioning or treating water, so I will further assume that you are referring to the plethora of companies who are promoting “salt-free water conditioners.” I will say that there is some validity to most of these methods, however companies or websites who say that they “soften” water without salt or make other prespoterous claims like “salt can be absorbed through the skin” or that electronic devices increase sudzing are not dealing in reality and should not be trusted. I always refer people to The BunkHouse – Gallery of water-Related Pseudoscience – Junk Science in the Marketplace - Check it out! While there are some fine products in this category of “water conditioning,” there are also plenty of outright frauds and other companies selling products which have limited validity and application.
How do you tell the difference? There’s the rub… I can rely on my 36 plus years in the water conditioning industry and tell you that while I have always felt that electronic or magnetic water conditioning has some validity, no one can truly articulate or prove how. There is a protocal for testing and validating these types of water treatment devices and to date, no ecectronic or magnetic device in the United States has passed that certification. By the way, to be certified, the developer of ths protocal, called DVGW-12, has established that in order to meet the requirements, the device must be at least 80% efficient in preventing scale. Ask to see the certification of any device which claims to condition the water by any mechanical, electronic or magnetic means. To date, I know of no magnetic or electronic device that mets that criteria in the USA. My guess is that it means they cannot meet that minimum threshold of 80% efficiency in preventing scale. I never cease to be amazed by the claims that many of these companies make. Most of their claims have little basis in reality.





My water source is from a small private company which supplies water to about 900 customers. Their source is a well.
Wayne,
You have too much iron to use the GreenWave, or any salt-free system for that matter without first taking out the iron.
The Urban Defender is a fraud, in my opinion and the Springhouse is an overpriced filtration system that we could build and sell tp you for $900.
Neither one affects scale. PERIOD!
The lemon shine is designed to cut hard water deposits. It may be similar to CLR, but the manufacturer refuses to divulge what’s in it. It’s the Lemon Shine, not the Easy Water…
Thanks for confirming what I suspected. Do you recommend a US Water Systems H2O2 injection system followed by a salt water softener and charcoal filters?
Mark,
I am researching No-Salt systems and need your expertise on the Filtersorb SP. Is it the same technology as TAC?
From an earlier post:
“The Sanitizer is amazing on any iron water and you eliminate the chemical feed”
I couldn’t find it on your website, how does it work and how much does it cost. Is it an alternative to the “Oxi-Gen” system?
Thanx
WHAT IS YOUR OPINION ON THE “NON-SACRIFICIAL ALLOY” NO-SALT SYSTEM THAT SAFEWATER SOFTENER LLC IS SELLING?.
MIKE
Wayne wrote:
Thanks for confirming what I suspected. Do you recommend a US Water Systems H2O2 injection system followed by a salt water softener and charcoal filters?
Wayne,
The H2O2 system would be followed by a water softener and I would probably recommend a Reverse Osmosis system instead of carbon filtration.
David wrote:
I am researching No-Salt systems and need your expertise on the Filtersorb SP. Is it the same technology as TAC?
David,
No it is not the same technology. It is totally different.
1. It is not TAC, but rather appears to be an anion-type resin that lowers the pH to create an initial effect of preventing scale, but is short-lived, as anion resin needs recharged; and
2. It is not certified, tested and validated like the TAC media.
We have tested it and at this juncture, I choose not to sell the technology. They would have to show me more that what they currently have in order to consider it a viable technology.
Mike wrote:
WHAT IS YOUR OPINION ON THE “NON-SACRIFICIAL ALLOY” NO-SALT SYSTEM THAT SAFEWATER SOFTENER LLC IS SELLING?.
Mike,
I deal with products that have some basis in “fact.” Anyone who has passed first-year Chemistry should know that a catalyst can only influence the rate of a reaction, not its final outcome. I could go on and on about their mis-statements, but it is sufficient to say that I do not consider this technology as anything to be taken seriously. There are lots of products on the “lunatic fringe” and most have no basis in fact, and I don’t like to waste my time on something that walks like a duck, talks like a duck, looks like a duck, because it’s probably a duck!
Mark –
I read many of the posts and replies, but not all, so forgive me if my questions have previously been answered. I am in the process of gutting my home and putting on an addition. When it is done, I will have 2.5 baths. My copper plumbing has all been replaced with Zurn Pex tubing. Over the years, my hard water has ruined many appliances and shower heads etc. I have “city water”, but it is provided by various wells, so the water quality report is listed in ranges, rather than specific numbers. Below is the most recent water quality info:
Chloride: 14.5 – 244 ppm
Hardness: 160 -500 ppm
Sulfate: 11.6 – 40.5 ppm
Total Dissolved Solids: 94 – 620 ppm
Zinc: <5 – 57.2 ppb
Iron: <25 – 102 ppb
Manganese: <2 – 104 ppb
Sodium: 3.92 – 95.6 ppm
My questions are:
1) Is there any problem using the GreenWave TAC with the Zurn Pex Tubing?
2) Any negative effects on my septic system?
3) Considering my water quality, will the TAC system work? (I’m not a fan of the slippery water feel of salt softeners).
4) Are there any installers of your system in Northern NJ, or can my regular plumber do it?
Thanks in advance.
Shawn
Sparta, NJ
Shawn B,
1) No problem with PEX plumbing;
2) No effect on septic whatsoever (except that a softener would discharge more water)
3) Based upon your water variations, I think the TAC might possibly the ONLY way to treat your water; and
4) Very simple to install – any plumber should be able to do it. Just in and out!
Mark,
What is the difference between the Greenwave Lime Buster and the HC38 from Hydrocare?
Matthew,
The HC38 seems to have a very small area where the RF (Radio Frequency) wave touch the plumbing. It’s pretty neat, but I think it would be very difficult for the RF to work properly as there is less than 1″ where the RF touches the pipe, whereas the LimeBlaster has about 4″ for the RF to penetrate the pipe. All of these devices are not as effective as TAC and the HC38 would seem to be less so because of the contact area of the RF.
I’m researching this whole no-salt softening thing myself. When people say ‘they work’ or ‘don’t work’ that doesn’t mean anything to me. Since softeners do a variety of things, what I want to know is:
1. Will it prevent scaling of cold water piping
2. Will it prevent scaling of hot water piping
3. Will it prevent scaling of water heater and elements
4. Will it make me feel slippery
5. Will it prevent soap scum from forming in my shower
6. Will it prevent spotting on sliverware or glassware or dishes in my dishwasher?
7. Will it prevent spotting or buildup of deposits on my bathroom and kitchen fixtures
8. Will it reduce my soap usage significantly
9. Will it result in cleaner laundry
10. Will it reduce itchy skin and/or scalp
11. How much silica will it withstand (and still work properly)
12. What pH will it withstand
13. How much chlorine will it withstand
14. How much iron or manganese will it withstand
Mark, Your blog here seems to be honest and straightforward. However, even here there isn’t much elaboration as to the meaning of ‘it works’. In my observation, every manufacturer that markets one of these devices (with wording everywhere from carefully constructed to outright lying) does their best to lead the consuming public to believing that these salt-free devices are capable of delivering all the benefits of a true ion-exchange water softener.
Why not address specific performance attributes? I’ve got nothing against them. I just want some truth. Their marketing language and methods lead me to suspicion that they’re lying or at best vastly stretching the truth – and that the true benefits are so miniscule that a reasonable person would reject them in favor of the tried-and-true technology that actually delivers on the promise – a true salt-based water softener.
Allen
Have you heard any pros or cons on the whole house water filter by Whirlpool that is available at Lowes home centers?
Thanks
John Yutesler
Results from NTL watercheck for my well:
Metals
———————————————-
Calcium 85.4 mg/L
Copper 0.009 mg/L
Iron 0.064 mg/L
Magnesium 35.30 mg/L
Manganese 0.005 mg/L
Potassium 1.0 mg/L
Silica 7.89 mg/L
Sodium 8 mg/L
Zinc 0.004 mg/L
No others detected
———————————————-
Physical Factors
Alkalinity 60 mg/L
Hardness 360 mg/L
pH 6.7 pH Units
TDS 210 mg/L
Turbidity 0.6 NTU
Chloride 9.0 mg/L
Sulfate 31.0 mg/L
No others detected
———————————————-
Organic – Trihalomethanes
None detected
———————————————-
Organic – Volatiles
None detected
———————————————-
Mark, would the Greenwave TAC conditioner work for my case?
Thanks
John Yutesler wrote:
Have you heard any pros or cons on the whole house water filter by Whirlpool that is available at Lowes home centers?
Thanks
John,
I am not impressed.
Allen asked (My answers in BOLD):
I’m researching this whole no-salt softening thing myself. When people say ‘they work’ or ‘don’t work’ that doesn’t mean anything to me. Since softeners do a variety of things, what I want to know is:
1. Will it prevent scaling of cold water piping (Answer: The GreenWave TAC does, others to a lessor degree)
2. Will it prevent scaling of hot water piping (Answer: Same as #1)
3. Will it prevent scaling of water heater and elements (Answer: Same as #1)
4. Will it make me feel slippery (Answer: NO!)
5. Will it prevent soap scum from forming in my shower (Answer: NO!)
6. Will it prevent spotting on sliverware or glassware or dishes in my dishwasher? (Answer: To some degree – You may have to use Jet Dry)
7. Will it prevent spotting or buildup of deposits on my bathroom and kitchen fixtures (Answer: No, but it wipes off easily)
8. Will it reduce my soap usage significantly (Answer: Hardly)
9. Will it result in cleaner laundry (Answer: Slightly)
10. Will it reduce itchy skin and/or scalp (Answer: Don’t Know – subjective)
11. How much silica will it withstand (and still work properly) – (Answer: not much)
12. What pH will it withstand (Answer: 6-9 pH)
13. How much chlorine will it withstand (Answer: Remove the chlorine first)
14. How much iron or manganese will it withstand (Answer: Almost none)
Mark, Your blog here seems to be honest and straightforward. However, even here there isn’t much elaboration as to the meaning of ‘it works’. In my observation, every manufacturer that markets one of these devices (with wording everywhere from carefully constructed to outright lying) does their best to lead the consuming public to believing that these salt-free devices are capable of delivering all the benefits of a true ion-exchange water softener.
Why not address specific performance attributes? I’ve got nothing against them. I just want some truth. Their marketing language and methods lead me to suspicion that they’re lying or at best vastly stretching the truth – and that the true benefits are so miniscule that a reasonable person would reject them in favor of the tried-and-true technology that actually delivers on the promise – a true salt-based water softener.
Your last two paragraphs pretty much summarizes the “State-of-the-Salt-Free-Industry.” To day the TAC is the only one with Certification (99.6% Effective)
Jerry,
Your water should be fine with a GreenWave. The only issue is silica, which not even a softener will remove, so other than the silica, it should be just fine.
Thanks Mark, that’s what I was hoping to hear, I think.
Is there any cost effective way to remove the silica? Is the amount, 7.89 mg/L, unusual and can it cause problems with the TAC? I had a new submersible pump installed about a year ago, could the silica content arise from the disturbance putting in the pump etc?
Thanks again for your informative blog.
Mark, I have simple restricted flow scale build up issues. City Water in Lousiville KY. I have one gas hot water heater serving two baths and the kitchen, then an electric hot water heater serving laundry and master bath. I am interested in limebuster. ALso looking at Hydrocare HC38. Do I need two of them? Gas HW is 12 fteet of copper tubing from the main incoming line, second electic water heater is 50 ft of coppper tubing away. The split for the second occurs at a “T” that drops into the first gas water heater. Something like this below.
12 ft 50 ft
Main ————–T————————-Elec
GAS
Limebuster is less expensive and I noted your disdain for the HC-38 in previous posts.
THanks
Brad
What whole house water filter do you like? Would I need to filter the water for the sprinkler system and pond?
Jerry,
I am attending a conference this week on water. I will get back with you on the silica issue after that. There are some new possibilites…
Brad asked:
Mark, I have simple restricted flow scale build up issues. City Water in Lousiville KY. I have one gas hot water heater serving two baths and the kitchen, then an electric hot water heater serving laundry and master bath. I am interested in limebuster. ALso looking at Hydrocare HC38. Do I need two of them? Gas HW is 12 fteet of copper tubing from the main incoming line, second electic water heater is 50 ft of coppper tubing away. The split for the second occurs at a “T” that drops into the first gas water heater. Something like this below.
12 ft 50 ft
Main ————–T————————-Elec
GAS
Limebuster is less expensive and I noted your disdain for the HC-38 in previous posts.
Brad,
In out testing, the Limeblaster has outperformed any other RF device we have found. Still, with any RF device, I would put one on the cold water inlet for both water heaters. The signal travels both directions, but it works best if you install two. There is a discount for 2 – you save $50.00.
UPDATE: After further testing, the HC-38 is actually a pretty good unit – I like the Limeblaster better, but the HC-38 is not bad.
John Y.,
I need more info about what you would be filtering…
Mark,
I am looking at a salt New Generation Salt Free Well System form LaPure. Are they reputable? Is their iron/hydrogen sulfide/manganese non chemical oxidizing media workable?
Tim,
I am not familiar with them. Can you provide a link to the product of which you are referring?
Hi Mark,
I sent this email in to your website’s help section and have not got a response. So I will post it here.
I have been researching whole house water softener/conditioner and filtration systems and came across your blog. We purchased our house new 10 years ago and have had hard, calcium deposits, bad tasting water ever since. We purchase RO water from a local water store for drinking and have no water softening system. I would like to purchase the Green Wave TAC system, but I don’t know if it will work for my residence. I have obtained the consumer confidence report from Corona Department of Water and Power for 2007 (their latest report). That would be Corona, CA. Can you review it to see if the Green Wave system is compatible with the water in my area? The following link will direct you to the report –
http://www.discovercorona.com/documents/DWP/water%20quality/FINAL,%20FINAL%20CONSUMER%20CONFIDENCE%20REPORT.pdf
I have a 3200 square foot residence with three baths and two adults and two children. I believe I spoke with you over the phone a couple of weeks ago, I am not sure whom I spoke with, but he advised me that the GreenWave TAC Plus 3000 would work for my residence. This was based on the size of our residence not the water report.
If it is a system that will work in my area, will it also remove the Calcium deposits (whitish crystal like substance) that I already have?
Thank you,
Casey
Casey,
I have been on vacation. Sorry for the delay. The GreenWave Plus 2000 or 3000 should work based upon the water analysis provided. Over time, it will probably remove the calcium deposits.
I am doing some research on alternative water conditioning systems and it appears there are several options to the salt based softeners. I note the claims around certifications and it seems many of these alternatives have or will soon be getting DVGW-512 and 510 certified, so that will level the playing field. Now I note on the Next cert a reference to the test being done via recirculation pumps, is that how your home based solutions work using recirculation pumps, if not what is the cert telling us? I also stumbled across the Watt Cert online which appears pretty much a duplicat of the Next Cert, so is it the same since you are using the Watt medium apparently, or did Next actually to their own test? Thanks.
Paul,
Some of these companies have been proclaiming that they will soon be certified, and they have been saying that for several years. Talk is cheap – the certrificate with the percentage of scale reduction, is hard! There are two divisions of Watts. One uses nextScaleStop media and the other uses Filtersorb media. Watts Water uses the Filtersorb, which in my opinion, is not as reliable. We also use the nextScaleStop media as part of our TAC system. To my knowledge the recirc. test is the way it was done and the way that anyone can do it.
Hi Mark,
As with many of the posters to your blog, I appreciate your depth of knowledge as well as your willingness to frankly state the pros and cons of the various technologies out there. I live in West Texas out in the country and my home is on a water well and septic system. I had my well tested several years ago and it was deemed safe, but I do not know the specific levels. I have checked my wells with a simple TDS checker and both measure over 3000 ppm. I have a basic 5-stage RO system that I recently replaced the membrane with a GE Osmonics TFM-36 with appropriate restrictor (350ml) and I still am unable to reduce my TDS below 650ppm. I would like to install a system or systems necessary to accomplich two things: 1) reduce the TDS of my drinking water to a considerably lower number, and 2) reduce the extremely frustrating and damaging calcium deposits in my faucets, fixtures, water heater elements, etc.
My water well pressure switch is set to 45-65psi as I know that the inlet pressure of an RO system can effect the function of the system. Is there a better membrane that might perform better with such a high TDS?
For the whole-house system, I have not read any recommendations for salt vs. TAC based on well water with such a high TDS content. Should I even consider a TAC-based system, or is salt the only way to go?
Thank you for your time!
Tom,
Without a detailed water analysis, I cannot make a guess as to how to properly treat your water, but I can say that you will need a commercial RO system that operates in excess of 200 psi with a booster pump. Here’s a good way to get the water tested:
http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/products/NTL-Watercheck-Test-Kit.html
Hello Mark,
I would really appreciate your suggestions for a water softener or filtration unit. We have well water and a sea-side property. 3 bedroom/3bath house. There is a MacClean backwash system installed, but it has a mechanical problem and is not in use at this time. I am wondering if I should have it repaired or replace it with something that might be better for our needs.
Water analysis result is: Hardness 5gpg
Iron .3ppm
Ph 7.0
Manganese .10ppm
Sulphur n/a
Nitrates n/a
Total dissolved solids 88ppm
We live on a water-side property (Puget Sound) and have a whitewater septic system.
We get brown/gray type staining and the taste is a bit off with a scum type stuff that floats on my coffee and tea.
Any suggestions will be very helpful.
Thank-you,
Pamela
Pamela,
What kind of pressure do you have? There are several ways to treat the water. You have a partial water analysis, but in order to do a good job of treating your water, I would recommend this:
http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/products/NTL-Watercheck-Test-Kit.html
City water that is mostly surface water (Snow Melt). We live in Northern Colorado Front Range (Eastern Slope). My biggest concern is the chlorine.
The attached website is our city water department home page.
Thanks
John Y.
http://www.ci.loveland.co.us/wp/water/main.htm
John Y.,
Do you have any info on hardness, calcium, magneisum, iron, manganese, etc.?
Mark,
Don’t mean to be impatient, did you find out anything about silica?
Thanks
“I am attending a conference this week on water. I will get back with you on the silica issue after that. There are some new possibilites…”
Mark
Here is what the city water lab gave me.
Thanks
City of Loveland Treated Drinking Water Analysis for the
Month of February 2009
Analyzed By: MS
PARAMETER
VALUE
MCL* MCLG**
MDRL***
PARAMETER
VALUE
MCL* MCLG**
MDRL***
Alkalinity
36
None
mg/L
Ammonia (N)
ND
MCLG = <10 mg/L
Aluminum
0.012
MCLG<0.1 mg/L
Nitrate (N)
0.5
MCL = 10.0 mg/L
Color
0
MCLG = 0
color units
pH
7.63
Optimum 7.8 s.u.
Chlorine, Free
1.29
MDRL = 4.0 mg/L
Potassium
0.6
MCLG = <20.0 mg/L
Chloride
3.84
MCLG = <250 mg/L
Silica
2.3
MCLG = <30 mg/L
Chromium (Total)
0.009
MCL = 0.1 mg/L
Sulfate
17.5
MCLG = <500 mg/L
Copper
ND
MCL = 1.3 mg/L
Turbidity
0.050
MCL = 0.3 NTU
Fluoride
0.87
MCL = 4.0
mg/L
Total Dissolved Solids
118
NONE
mg/L
Hardness (Total)
28
NONE although if over 250 mg/L water is considered hard
Specific Conductance
131
NONE
umhos/cm
Iron (Total)
ND
MCLG = <0.3 mg/L
Zinc
ND
MCLG = <5 mg/L
Manganese
0.003
MCLG = <0.05 mg/L
Lead
ND
MCL = 0.015 mg/L
Comments:
*MCL = Maximum Contaminant Level (mandated by the USEPA)
**MCLG = Maximum Contaminant Level Goal
***MDRL = Maximum Disinfectant Residual Level
mg/L = Milligrams/Liter
NTU = Nephelometric Turbidity Units
NT = Not Tested
ND = None Detected
Mark,
Great site, I have enjoyed reading through it. I was poking around on other sites and saw a no salt product with the name of Clearwave being sold by Home Depot (among others). I did not see any mention of it on this site and wonder if you have anything to say about it.
Thanks,
Jeff
John,
I would use a backwashing carbon filter and a 4.5″ x 20″ 20 micron filter system.
Links:
http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/products/US-Water-Systems-Hydro%252dClean-Backwashing-Filter.html
http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/products/FFH-Series-1%252dStage-Whole%252dHouse-Filtration-System.html
This is also a nice and very effective (but expensive) option:
http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/products/Hydro%252dSafe.html
hi mark, thanks for the great info.
we are just completing a new home in NW wyoming where the water is generally pretty darn hard. we had a test done on our well in June 2008 and the results are included below. We need to flow between 15-20gpm as its a large house with 5 bathrooms. Our pressure is 45-65psi regulated by (2) large 30 gallon equivalent draw down tanks.
we got lucky in that our water has low TDS and has no odor/taste/color, etc. however, we have a LAARS Mascot boiler for domestic hot water and radiant heading in our current house on the ranch, and the new house will actualy have 2 (a LAARS and a RINNAI). the current boiler in our existing house on the ranch is showing signs of hard water scaling and we need to sort out a solution before we start pumping the water into the new system with 2 of those boilers. I definitely want to stay away from salt systems as we’re on septic and we flow a LOT of water… any ideas greatly appreciated.
-Rick
pH 8.2
Specific Conductance, 835
at 25°C, µmhos
Alkalinity, “P” 0
as CaCO3, ppm
Alkalinity, “M” 170
as CaCO3, ppm
Sulfur, Total, 206
as SO4, ppm
Chloride, 21
as Cl, ppm
Hardness, Total, 142
as CaCO3, ppm
Calcium Hardness, Total 59
as CaCO3, ppm
Magnesium Hardness, Total 82
as CaCO3, ppm
Barium, Total, < 0.01
as Ba, ppm
Strontium, Total, 0.62
as Sr, ppm
Copper, Total, < 0.05
as Cu, ppm
Iron, Total, < 0.05
as Fe, ppm
Sodium, 121
as Na, ppm
Potassium, 1.4
as K, ppm
Zinc, Total, 0.04
as Zn, ppm
Aluminum, Total, < 0.1
as Al, ppm
Manganese, Total, < 0.01
as Mn, ppm
Molybdenum, < 0.06
as Mo, ppm
Nitrate, 4.0
as NO3, ppm
Phosphate, Total, < 0.4
as PO4, ppm
Phosphate, Total Inorganic, < 0.2
as PO4, ppm
Phosphate, Ortho-, < 0.2
as PO4, ppm
Silica, Total, 6.7
as SiO2, ppm
Fluoride, 1.9
as F, ppm
Arsenic, Total, < 0.1
as As, ppm
Beryllium, < 0.01
as Be, ppm
Boron, 0.29
as B, ppm
Cadmium, < 0.01
as Cd, ppm
Chromium, Total, < 0.02
as Cr, ppm
Cobalt, Total, < 0.01
as Co, ppm
Lead, Total, < 0.05
as Pb, ppm
Nickel, Total, < 0.01
as Ni, ppm
Selenium, Total, < 0.1
as Se, ppm
Tin, Total, < 0.05
as Sn, ppm
Titanium, Total, < 0.01
as Ti, ppm
Vanadium, Total, < 0.01
as V, ppm
Thallium, Total, < 0.1
as Tl, ppm
Carbon, Total Organic, 1.6
as C, ppm
Turbidity, 0.4
NTU
The Green Wave should work well here, John.
Jerry,
Silica is a whole another animal. A regular water softener won’t remove it either, just don’t confuse “plating” from silica with “hardness scale.”
There’s really no better way to deal with it.
wholesale distributors…
I truly appreciate you taking the time to share this . Look forward to more posts from you. Cheers
…
Mark,
I am looking for a no salt softener to use before our ro systems, my question is, if the water gets catalysed with the green wave is it safe for the ro membrans or is beter to remove the minerals from the water to eliminate incrustation in the membrans?
The Water Doctor Replied:
Mario,
You say “RO systems” – are these residential or commercial that may recycle the water?
I am very impressed with what I’ve been reading (comments from concerned people). I was directed to this website by one of my customers. I am a REAL Water Treatment Specialist in WA & OR. I’ve been selling NextScaleStop Systems for years. Yes, they are a great salt-free solution to scale problems for customer’s homes. The #1 complaint I get from my customer base is that the scale is ruining everything that it touches. I am happy to announce that I have a solution for any customer that comes into contact with me.
Thank you again for being honest w/ your blog. I will return monthly to read more great conversations that you’ve had w/ people.
The Water Doctor Replied:
Thanks, Michael. Your input is welcome!
Michael Pierce
Water Treatment Specialist
Aarrow Plumbing & Water Treatment in WA & OR
“we can help you with all of your water needs”
Dear Water Dr.
I am about to start a home remodel and want to deal with our hard water (scaling) problem. Hopefully without salt. We had a water test done when we moved into the house. The results were:
- Radon 1316 pCi/L
- Ammonia <0.1 mg/L
- Color ND
- Turbidity 0.23 nu
- Odor ND
- Hardness 134 mg/L
- Iron <0.05 ppm
- Manganese <0.05 ppm
- Sodium 11.5 ppm
- Lead (flush) 1.08 ppm
- Chlorine 13.1 ppm
- Nitrate 0.31 ppm
- Nitrite <0.05 ppm
- Sulfate 17.7 ppm
- pH 7.79 S.U.
Not sure if this is complete enough to be helpful, but is there a recommended system that "works" for this. The only issue I care about is the scale buildup.
Thanks,
James
The Water Doctor Replied:
James,
Based upon the above analysis, the Green Wave TAC Ultra system should do a great job of removing chemicals and preventing scale.
I am in the water treatment business in Northern Alabama and I heard about a product called Hydrocare that uses no salt, chemicals or magnets to treat hard water and not only prevent lime scale build up but also remove it the plumbing and appliances. The patented technology was developed in the UK for British Gas in the 1990′s and has been tested and sold worldwide for over 10 years but has only been available in the US for less than 2 years. I was skeptable too, but after seeing the test results from independent testing companies and talking to actual users of the product, I decided to try one in my home as a test. Here are me test results after only 2 weeks so far:
My Home Hydrocare Test Results
Background:
1. Hydrocare HC-44 unit installed on July 15, 2009 on cold water line to water heater. This is the manufacture’s recommended installation location as it will provide the strongest signal directly into the water heater. According to Hydrocare, their technology works both up and down stream and is not dependant upon any water flow and thusly it will provide whole house hard water treatment from the water heater installation. Total installation time took less than 5 minutes.
2. Our Home is 4 ½ years old with no previous water treatment and is 2700 sq feet with full 3 bathrooms.
3. Our city Water has a TDS of 168 ppm and 12 grains of hardness per gallon.
4. We have had experience in a previous home with salt brine water softeners and both my wife and I did not like the slimy never feeling clean feel on our skin of the treated water. Some people think the slimy feel is a clean feel but most of the people I know with salt water softeners give this as their biggest complaint. One friend of mine says “it’s like you can not rinse off the soap”.
Weekly Results and Observations:
End of week one:
• Noticed immediate personal hygiene product changes that included less shampoo on hair and both my wife and I believe our hair and skin to be softer feeling. The hand soap lathers more without the slimy feel like our previous water softener. I have stopped using my hair conditioner as well.
• We have a black mate finish granite sink in the kitchen that no longer has white water spots and film. The white film that previously built up in the sink and around the base of the plumbing fixtures has not reappeared after initial cleaning. In the past we had to clean with Kaboom product weekly. (I will miss Billy Mays he got us started on Kaboom years ago.)
• Stopped using Jet dry in dishwasher and found no water spots on glassware or dishes.
• Our master bath has antique bronze finish on plumbing fixtures and the shower glass frame. Prior to test we cleaned the shower with Kaboom to remove any old lime scale build up, something we had to do on a weekly basis prior to test. Noticed very few hard water spots on shower glass and none on the dark frame. There is no need to clean with Kaboom at this time.
• The toilet in the less used basement bathroom had a hard water ring in it prior to test and noticed that it has disappeared after 6 days of Hydrocare installation.
Week Two:
• Pretty much the same observations as in week one with some exceptions as noted.
• Did notice some evaporative spotting in the shower glass in the master bath. Having talked with other Hydrocare users, this is to be expected for the first month or so, as the Hydrocare unit is removing the old built up lime scale which passes through the shower in solution with the water. The big difference VS the untreated water before, is that the evaporative spots DO NOT stick to the glass but can be removed with a damp cloth with out the use of Kaboom or other harsher cleaning chemicals. The spots are more of a powdery residue instead of a hard scaly build up.
• The built up lime scale on our shower head has reduced by about 50% in the 2 weeks.
• On Saturday, I washed my wife’s car which is dark charcoal grey color and I noticed hardly any water spots on the car. Before Hydrocare I would wash the car in the driveway and then pull into the garage to dry to avoid eater spots. The few water spots this time were like the spots in the shower and came off with a damp towel.
The Water Doctor Replied:
Terry,
It sounds like you are really convinced about what you say, but I have to remain skeptical because I have tested this product and have not seen these same results. I have heard this from other people about this and other products, only to take water samples from the treated and untreated water and scientifically proved the soap lathered the same as the untreated water. I am sure you believe what you are saying, but I am betting if you sent me a gallon of treated and untreated water, I could not detect any difference in soap usage.
For people who don’t like the slick feeling, they almost always immediately say whatever product they are using is amazing. I believe that I can scientifically prove each of your claims about soap usage and spotting to be untrue. I am not questioning your veracity (I know you believe it), but conducting a test says it all.
Let me ask – do you sell this product, know someone who sells this product or are you affilaited with the company. I have to ask. I would love to explore it further. How much did you pay for your system?
I don’t know it all, but I have been investigating these systems for 37 years, and while I feel they have some validity, the soap savings and spotting issues are what I question…
However, I am willing to keep an open mind and would love to test the water.
Hi Tim,
I need an eco-friendly water treatment system for my entire house. Im not interested in anything with salt or reverse osmosis. I have problems with scale build up and a reddish color that builds up not only in my shower but my toilets as well. My most recent water test results in mg/L
Calcium 42.2
Copper .024
Iron .021
Magnesium 21.70
Potassium 5.0
Silica 14.7
Sodium 91
Alkalinity 140
Hardness 190
PH 7.3
TDS 450
Turbidity 0.3
Chloride 140
Nitrate as N 0.7
Sulfate 65
I have a 2200 sq/ft house with two bathrooms. I live in Phoenix, Arizona so my garage where the system would go can get up to 110-115F during the summer. Would that be a problem? And do I need to install a soft water loop? I currently do not have one. I appreciate any recommendations that you might have as to which system would work best for me if any.
Thanks so much for your time!!!!!!!
Oops ! I’m sorry I meant to say Hi ! Mark
Chrisse,
I would recommend the GreenWave Ultra and a Dual Pre-Filter system with a 5 micron spumn poly filter and Maz cartridge. Here are the links:
http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/products/GreenWave-TAC-Ultra-No%252dSalt%2C-Scale-Prevention-%26-Chlorine%7B47%7DChemical-Removal-System.html
http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/products/FFH-Series-2%252dStage-Whole%252dHouse-Filtration-System.html
http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/products/4.5%22-X-20%22-Melt-Blown-Replacement-Filter-Cartridge.html
http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/products/-Pentek-4.5%22-x-20%22-Radial-Flow-Iron-Reduction-Cartridge.html
If you have further questions, please do not hesitate to call me at 800-608-USWATER.
Water Doctor, I just moved into a house in which there is VERY hard water. A plumber came to the house and talked to me about the Watts One Flow (OF844-12) system and said it would help with the hard water. The house is brand new so I would like to do something before my Hot Water Heater and everything begin getting caked with the hard water minerals. THe chlorine level of my water is .1 to 2.0 mg/L, Floride is .67 to 1.8 mg/L, Nitrates is .2 to 1.98 mg/L, Lead is 5 to 6.37 mg/L, and Copper is .67 to .886 mg/L. I was looking into the US Water Systems GREENWAVE as well as the OneFlow by Watts. Which would you recommend. I was quoted around $1700 for the OneFlow for the parts and installation and I have yet to get quotes for the GreenWave systems. Any recommendations?
The Water Doctor Replied:
Watts One Flow is a commercial system. It is my understanding that there is no warranty on it for residential applications.
With your level of chlorine I would recommend the GreenWave Ultra. Here’s the link:
http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/products/GreenWave–Ultra-No%252dSalt%2C-Scale-Prevention-%26-Chlorine%7B47%7DChemical-Removal-System.html